Aaron Smith-Levin — A former Scientologist raised in the church from age four, who worked full-time as a staff and Sea Org member including training auditors. He now runs the YouTube channel 'Growing Up in Scientology' and is vice president of the Aftermath Foundation, which helps people escape Scientology.
The gist
Aaron Smith-Levin gives Lex Fridman a thorough, deliberately fair walkthrough of Scientology: its core belief that we are immortal spiritual beings (thetans), the auditing process and the e-meter, the Sea Org's near-communist structure, and the secret upper OT levels including the Xenu and body-thetan story. He traces how David Miscavige usurped power after L. Ron Hubbard's death and argues Miscavige is a true believer whose corruption has shrunk the church. Throughout, Aaron stresses that the ideas resonate with mainstream philosophy and that auditing genuinely helps many people, but that the organization's control, disconnection policy, and family destruction are where it goes catastrophically wrong. He shares his own story of being forced out, the disconnection that obliterated his wife's family, and the death of his twin brother. He closes on why he posts daily, his lack of fear or hatred, and his definition of success: finding happiness and helping his kids.
Big reveals
- Argues David Miscavige is a true believer but knows the upper OT levels (9 through 15) do not actually exist because Hubbard never wrote them.
- Lays out the secret Xenu story: 75 million years ago a galactic dictator froze beings and blew them up in volcanoes on Earth, their spirits now stuck to our bodies.
- Says the Sea Org is 'damn near a perfect communist experiment' where members make $50 a week and sign symbolic billion-year contracts.
- Sea Org members are not allowed to have children and are expected to have abortions to stay in.
- Explains the Shelley Miscavige 'missing' mystery, saying she was reassigned to a secret base and confirmed seen as recently as 2019.
- States dozens of former members say Miscavige physically assaulted them, with Mike Rinder assaulted more than anyone.
- Reveals his twin brother's death at 23-24 was a direct result of their Scientology experience.
- Reveals the Church created aaronsmithlevin.com to attack him personally, which he finds hilarious and ineffective.
Things worth remembering
- Estimates there are no more than 35,000 active Scientologists worldwide, despite the church claiming millions.
- Hubbard's 1950 Dianetics had no concept of past lives; the earliest 'engram' was birth, and he originally credited Sigmund Freud.
- The e-meter measures electrical resistance, and auditing sessions must always end on a 'floating needle.'
- Seasoned Scientologists learn to make their needle float on demand by recalling happy thoughts.
- Scientology edited Wikipedia so often from its own IP addresses that Wikipedia banned those addresses.
- Aaron has uploaded a Scientology video every day for six months to flood the internet with fair, accurate information.
- He says he knows of no one who stays in Scientology out of fear of blackmail.
- Scientology vets and interrogates all of Tom Cruise's staff and effectively runs his household and production company.
- Describes 'soft corruption': the church hires non-Scientologist retired judges, lawyers, lobbyists, and off-duty police to wield influence.
Recommended in this episode
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A Billion Years: My Escape From a Life in the Highest Ranks of Scientology
Mike Rinder
“it's a it really is a fantastic book because Lex the guy the guy was born and raised in Scientology and worked personally with El Ron Hubbard” — Aaron Smith-Levin 01:34:25Find it on Amazon