Ben Patrick — Known as 'KneesOverToesGuy,' a coach and founder of ATG who overcame chronic knee pain and multiple surgeries to build a minimalist knee-training and joint-health system based on training the knees-over-toes position.
The gist
Ben Patrick recounts going from a stiff teenager nicknamed 'old man' with chronic knee pain and a partial kneecap replacement, quad tendon reattachment, and meniscus transplant, to dunking pain-free for over a decade. The turning point was discovering Charles Poliquin's work, which contradicted the mainstream 'don't let your knees go over your toes' rule and led him to backward sled dragging, full-range deep squats, and front-foot-elevated split squats. He explains his three core training principles, his minimalist twice-a-week program, and the histories behind tools like the sled (traced to Westside Barbell and Finnish tree-draggers) and the tibialis 'tib bar' (from Mr. Universe Bob Gajda's 'DARD' device). The back half turns to Tim's philosophy on integrity, audience capture, and why he walked away from a potentially nine-figure supplement business to protect his audience's trust.
Big reveals
- By age 18 Ben had a partial kneecap replacement, quad tendon reattachment, and meniscus transplant, then secretly stayed on painkillers afterward without his parents or girlfriend knowing.
- The first thing that let Ben get off painkillers was dragging a sled backwards, with every step putting his knee over his toes, getting circulation and strength without pain.
- Ben deliberately got off painkillers after just the first week of backward sled work, even though not all his pain was gone.
- Charles Poliquin learned the backward sled idea by tracing it to Westside Barbell's Louie Simmons, who invented dragging weight after learning Finnish powerlifters' secret was a day job dragging trees.
- The tibialis 'tib bar' originated from Mr. Universe Bob Gajda, who quit bodybuilding when steroid money arrived and invented a device he called the 'DARD' (Dynamic Axial Resistance Device).
- Tim revealed he could have made tens of millions, maybe over $100 million, launching a supplement brand off the 4-Hour Body, but declined it to protect his audience's trust.
- Tim chose not to do four or five follow-up crypto episodes after a massively successful one, to avoid 'audience capture' and alienating listeners not interested in crypto.
Things worth remembering
- Ben coached the sled over 100,000 times across thousands of group sessions and says no one was ever hurt doing it.
- To demonstrate sled safety, Ben put 1,000 pounds on a sled and had his 71-year-old mother try to drag it backwards; she couldn't budge it but was completely fine.
- Ben's 71-year-old mother sprints and credits the front-foot-elevated split squat with fixing her deteriorating hip, after eight years of training.
- At age 34, Ben has been dunking for over a decade with no knee problems, despite being unable to grab the rim throughout his high school career.
- Tim cites Jerzy Gregorek, a near-70 masters Olympic weightlifter who can do an ass-to-heels snatch standing on a balance board, and credits one-rep-per-minute light overhead squats for restoring his own ankle mobility.
- The 4-Hour Body sold so many of ATG's wrist bars after Tim featured it in his '5-Bullet Friday' newsletter (2M+ subscribers) that staff investigated the spike; made-in-America just-in-time production let them fulfill orders without over-ordering.
- Tim says if updating the 4-Hour Body he'd add chapters on sled work, intermittent fasting, hip/glute-medius work, and zone 2 training.
- Arnold Schwarzenegger was so embarrassed by his lower-leg development that some early posing photos show him standing in water up to his knees to hide his calves.
- Ben works out only twice a week for about 45 minutes, plays basketball once a week, and raises toddlers; his whole regimen is built on one-to-two work sets per exercise.
- Tim cites the Barry Ross protocol (used with sprinter Allyson Felix) of deadlifts to the knee, 2-3 sets of 2-3 reps with long rests, as a minimalist route one reader used to reach a 475 lb deadlift.
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Tib Bar
ATG
“I think tib bar and now it's a pretty common device. Like you can even go on Amazon and buy tip bars.” — Ben Patrick 00:38:25Find it on Amazon
Wrist Bar
ATG
“we were chatting a bit before recording about some of your different pieces of equipment and I told you that I really liked your wrist bar.” — Tim Ferriss 00:40:28Find it on Amazon
Torque Sleds
Torque Fitness (inferred)
“Particularly the sleds I really like, like the Torque sleds, which I own. I love them.” — Tim Ferriss 00:58:10Find it on Amazon
The 4-Hour Workweek
Tim Ferriss
“I first met Charles because he reached out to me after reading the 4-hour work week, my first book, and he had applied a lot of it to his business” — Tim Ferriss 00:30:07Find it on Amazon
The 4-Hour Body
Tim Ferriss
“And then we connected and Charles ended up in the 4-hour body. He introduced me to myofascial release and active release technique.” — Tim Ferriss 00:30:37Find it on Amazon
Tools of Titans
Tim Ferriss
“things that you can do to stabilize everything else in effect that I did put some of in Tools of Titans with say some of Peter Tia's exercises” — Tim Ferriss 00:55:34Find it on Amazon