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Joe Rogan · 2024-06-27 · 1h 52m

Joe Rogan Experience #1914 - Siddharth Kara

Researcher Siddharth Kara exposes the brutal child labor and slavery behind cobalt mining in the Congo that powers our rechargeable devices.

Joe Rogan Experience #1914 - Siddharth Kara
The guest

Siddharth Kara — Author and researcher on modern slavery and child labor who spent five years documenting cobalt mining in the Democratic Republic of the Congo for his book Cobalt Red.

The gist

Siddharth Kara details how three-quarters of the world's cobalt, an essential component of every lithium-ion rechargeable battery, comes from a small region of the Congo mined under appalling, often deadly conditions. He describes hundreds of thousands of impoverished 'artisanal' miners, including thousands of children, digging by hand for a dollar or two a day, breathing toxic dust, and dying in unsupported tunnel collapses. Kara argues there is no such thing as 'clean cobalt' and that tech and EV companies like Apple, Tesla, and Samsung obscure these conditions with PR while their demand drives the suffering. He recounts the danger of his own undercover research, the historical echoes of King Leopold's rubber atrocities, and why Chinese-controlled mining dominates the region. He frames the book as a first 'salvo' meant to spark public outrage and force corporate accountability.

Big reveals

  • Kara was the first outsider to film inside the Shabara industrial cobalt mine, where 15,000 people dig by hand where artisanal mining is officially claimed not to exist.
  • There is no such thing as 'clean cobalt' according to Kara; it is all marketing and PR, and no company can justifiably claim its cobalt is ethically sourced.
  • Roughly 10,000-15,000 unsupported tunnels exist, and collapses bury men and boys alive somewhere in the Congo every week.
  • On his first trip Kara was attacked by militia commandos with Kalashnikovs and machetes; a governor's office stamp on his documents saved his life.
  • Kara struggled to place an op-ed because, journalists told him off the record, he was 'coming at companies that buy too much advertising.'
  • Chinese companies cornered the cobalt market via a 2009 deal before the world understood its importance, controlling 70-80% of production.
  • Tesla already uses cobalt-free LFP (lithium iron phosphate) batteries in half its new cars, showing alternatives are viable.

Things worth remembering

  • In 2021 about 72% of the world's cobalt came from the Congo, with Russia, Australia, and Morocco each supplying around 3%.
  • Each EV battery pack requires up to 10 kilograms of refined cobalt, about a thousand times what a smartphone needs.
  • King Leopold acquired the Congo in 1885, the same year the car was invented, then enslaved the population to harvest rubber for tires after Dunlop's 1888 rubber tire.
  • Earlier 'conflict minerals' (the 3TG: tin, tungsten, tantalum, gold) fueled the Eastern Congo catastrophe around 2000 after the Rwandan genocide.
  • The Congo has a 9% electrification rate and only about 0.3-0.4% in rural areas, despite holding the world's largest cobalt reserves.
  • Of 19 major industrial copper-cobalt complexes Kara saw, 15 were run by Chinese companies, with Glencore controlling most of the rest.
  • China produced 75% of the world's refined cobalt last year, and Chinese battery maker CATL alone holds a one-third global market share.
  • Climate goals require roughly 200-300 million EVs on the road by the decade's end, a 10-15 fold increase driving massive cobalt demand.
  • Freeport-McMoRan, the last American company in the region, sold its concession to a Chinese firm in 2006 for $2.65 billion.
  • Kara, of Indian descent, could blend in among the Indians living in the Congo and kept his passport velcroed to his calf for fast escapes.

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Guest’s ownBook

Cobalt Red: How the Blood of the Congo Powers Our Lives

Siddharth Kara

“your book is available January 31st it's called Cobalt red how the blood of the Congo Powers Our Lives” — Joe Rogan 01:51:45
Find it on Amazon