Joe Rogan Experience #2109 - Abigail Shrier

Joe Rogan and Abigail Shrier revisit the backlash to her first book Irreversible Damage before turning to her new book Bad Therapy. Shrier argues that the most therapized, medicated generation in history is also the most anxious and depressed, and that therapy and psychiatric drugs carry overlooked iatrogenic harms when given to kids who don't truly need them. She makes the case for authoritative parenting, resilience, independence, and letting children experience discomfort instead of pathologizing normal feelings. They cover social media, the ADHD/Adderall and SSRI prescribing boom, rumination, and cross-cultural comparisons showing American kids fare worse on mental health.

• Shrier cites a Finnish study finding that, controlling for other mental-health issues, suicide rates among people with gender dysphoria are no higher than the general population.
  00:05:09
• Her new book Bad Therapy argues therapy given to kids who aren't sick makes existing problems worse and introduces new ones via iatrogenic side effects.
  00:13:57
• Childhood and adolescent mental health has been in decline since the 1950s, with adolescent suicide quadrupling between 1955 and 1988, so phones can't be the whole story.
  00:23:53
• Boys from liberal families report higher anxiety than girls from conservative families, pointing to environment and parenting over biology.
  00:25:28
• An Australian coping-skills program for over a thousand teens (Wise Teens) actually made kids sadder and more anxious by encouraging rumination.
  00:51:45
• Roughly 12-15% of Vietnam vets saw combat but 30% reported PTSD, which Shrier frames as iatrogenesis from learning the symptoms.
  01:05:43
• About 42% of Gen Z has a mental-health diagnosis and roughly 40% have had therapy, far more than any prior generation.
  01:21:17
• 41.4 million Adderall prescriptions were dispensed in the US in 2021, up over 10% from 2020, fueled by fast telehealth diagnoses.
  01:29:07

• Testosterone given to girls alleviated anxiety and created euphoria, turning some into evangelists for it despite permanent changes like voice deepening.
  00:08:13
• Studies suggest exercise can outperform antidepressants for mild-to-moderate depression without the side effects.
  00:18:41
• In a long-term Great Depression study, the 'deprived middle class' kids who had to work ended up the most resilient and happy adults.
  00:31:47
• Psychiatrist Paul McHugh found Israeli combat soldiers had less PTSD because they were told their reaction was normal and would be sent back to their unit.
  01:03:40
• Japanese preschools deliberately design areas teachers can't see so children learn to work out their own conflicts.
  01:13:00
• A reported 86% of young people claim to have 'menu anxiety' over ordering food in a restaurant.
  01:21:48
• Some telehealth startups diagnose ADHD and prescribe stimulants after 30-minute video calls, entirely remotely.
  01:30:11
• The 'Latino Paradox': Latino immigrants have better mental health than after they acculturate to American culture, linked to extended-family stability.
  01:47:57
• Pediatricians, not just psychiatrists, are a huge source of SSRI and ADHD prescriptions and may prescribe them too easily.
  01:36:54
• The FDA approved Lexapro for seven-year-olds, which Shrier warns can delete a child's sex drive before they ever develop one.
  01:33:48

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