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Diary of a CEO · 2025-04-21 · 2h 25m

Former FBI Agent: If They Do This Please RUN! Narcissists Favourite Trick To Control You!

A 25-year FBI counterintelligence veteran reveals how body language, confidence and psychological comfort let you read people and win negotiations.

Former FBI Agent: If They Do This Please RUN! Narcissists Favourite Trick To Control You!
The guest

Joe Navarro — Former FBI special agent of 25 years specializing in counterintelligence and behavioral analysis, now a world-renowned body language expert and author of 14 books including 'Be Exceptional' and 'What Every Body Is Saying'.

The gist

Joe Navarro walks Steven Bartlett through what a quarter-century of catching spies and interrogating enemies taught him about human behavior. He explains how tiny nonverbal cues (a shaking cigarette, the way someone carries flowers) betray deception, and how the face, lips, neck and hands broadcast comfort and discomfort. The conversation turns practical for business: how to negotiate by controlling time and seating, how to project a 'command voice', how confidence is trained one small competence at a time, and how creating 'psychological comfort' is the most powerful human skill. Navarro also breaks down narcissists and dangerous personalities, advising listeners to recognize the traits and get out. He closes reflecting on the emotional toll of the work and the value of genuine human connection in a screen-dominated age.

Big reveals

  • Identified spy Rod Ramsey as suspicious because his cigarette shook twice when a key name was mentioned, launching a 10-year investigation.
  • Says the Ramsey/Conrad case was the most damaging espionage case in US history, compromising NATO nuclear go codes in Germany.
  • A general testified that had war broken out, the defeat of the West would have been assured within 3 days because of the leak.
  • Caught a deep-cover 'illegal' agent because he carried a flower bouquet pointing down (Eastern European style) rather than up.
  • Admits he secretly shaved inches off the suspect's couch so he always sat physically higher during 37 interviews.
  • Reveals confidence can be trained by mastering one small thing first, then building outward.
  • States that while narcissists are ~2% of the population, as many as 22% of CEOs have narcissistic traits.
  • Confesses he is still in pain decades later over being on duty the night a girl was abducted by a serial killer.

Things worth remembering

  • Humans cover their mouths when shocked as an evolved reflex to avoid broadcasting breath to predators.
  • Harvard's 'thin slice' research shows we assess each other accurately in as little as 3 milliseconds, right ~75% of the time.
  • Babies in utero adapt to their mother's language, so German and French newborns cry with different lilts.
  • The 'still face' experiment shows holding a frozen expression makes you perceived as a threat and untrustworthy.
  • The Stockholm syndrome formed fast because robbers became the parental 'archetype' and hostages became childlike.
  • The 'height dividend': people 6'2" are ~3% of the population but ~39% of Fortune 500 CEOs.
  • Velcro was invented by a Swiss man who observed under a microscope that plant burrs on his socks were curved.
  • Steve Jobs grew Apple's market share by selling 'psychological comfort' when people were genuinely afraid of computers.
  • The brain retains negative experiences via the hippocampi, which is why there's no pill for post-traumatic stress.
  • The suprasternal (neck) notch is the body's most vulnerable point; touching it signals weakness in negotiations.

Recommended in this episode

Books, products and media the guest or host genuinely endorsed here — with the buy link.

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RecommendedBook

The Body Keeps the Score

Bessel van der Kolk (inferred)

“there's a great book called the body keeps the score the body will definitely keeps the score you will pay a price for being in the proximity of a toxic individual” — Joe Navarro 02:05:37
Find it on Amazon
Guest’s ownBook

Louder Than Words

Joe Navarro

“Brian Hall who encouraged me to write my one of my books called Louder Than Words invited me to go to Harvard” — Joe Navarro 01:32:36
Find it on Amazon
Guest’s ownBook

Narcissists Among Us

Joe Navarro

“In 2009, you wrote a book called Narcissists Among Us. Yes.” — Steven Bartlett 02:02:00
Find it on Amazon
Guest’s ownBook

Dangerous Personalities

Joe Navarro

“that's why I wrote the dangerous personalities because I have these robust checklists in there which have been tested many times” — Joe Navarro 02:04:34
Find it on Amazon
Guest’s ownBook

Be Exceptional

Joe Navarro

“you say that exceptional individuals are made not born... you've identified several traits that make someone an exceptional person” — Steven Bartlett 01:49:23
Find it on Amazon