Dr. Zahi Hawass — Egypt's best-known archaeologist and former Minister of Antiquities, who has excavated at Giza for 57 years. He is the public face of Egyptology and a fierce critic of 'alternative' pyramid theories.
The gist
Hawass walks Rogan through decades of his own excavations to argue that the Giza pyramids were built by paid Egyptian workers around 4,500 years ago as a 'national project,' not by slaves, aliens, or a lost civilization. He details discoveries including the workers' tombs, the Wadi el-Jarf papyri diary of an overseer named Merer, recounted stones, robotic exploration of the pyramid's shafts, and newly found voids and hieroglyphs inside the Great Pyramid. Much of the conversation becomes a tense debate as Rogan presses him on the Italian satellite-radar 'underground pillars' claims, Robert Schoch's water-erosion theory, Zep Tepi, carbon dating, and Gobekli Tepe. Hawass repeatedly dismisses these as new-age speculation and insists only physical evidence counts. The episode ends with Hawass inviting Rogan to record a future podcast inside the Great Pyramid.
Big reveals
- Hawass says he secretly excavated four nested sarcophagi down to a mummy, then reburied everything so a minister could 'discover' it live for the press.
- Claims most published information about the pyramids is wrong, and only he and Mark Lehner have it right.
- Says a 2010 recount puts the Great Pyramid at no more than 1 million blocks, far below the long-cited 2.3 million, because the base is solid carved rock.
- Reveals a newly found void above the Grand Gallery 'the size of two trucks' plus hieratic hieroglyphs inside the pyramid, discovered as recently as 3 months prior.
- Flatly accuses the Italian satellite-tomography researchers of 'completely lying' about underground structures beneath the pyramid.
- States that drilling 30-35 ft under the Sphinx everywhere proved there are no hidden tunnels or chambers beneath it.
- Declares he does not believe in Carbon-14 dating at all and that it doesn't work in Egypt.
- Announces a major new discovery two weeks before taping near the Step Pyramid, which he believes finally locates the long-sought tomb of Imhotep.
Things worth remembering
- Workers were buried with beer jars (men) or perfume vessels (women) for the afterlife, and the cemetery's names prove the builders were free Egyptians, not slaves.
- Excavations found bones showing roughly 11 cows and 33 goats were slaughtered daily, enough to feed about 10,000 workers.
- The Wadi el-Jarf papyri is the diary of an overseer named Merer and the first written evidence about building Khufu's pyramid, about 4,600 years old.
- Hawass argues the gold-cased capstone going up triggered a nationwide celebration because it made the king a god.
- He once closed the Great Pyramid for a year because each visitor exhales about 20 grams of water, which turns to damaging salt on the walls.
- A robot found a small door with two copper handles 200 ft up a shaft in the Queen's Chamber, hiding a second blocking stone behind it.
- The Dream Stele between the Sphinx's paws records Tutmosis IV's claim that the Sphinx promised him the throne if he cleared away the sand.
- Hawass says the worst prior Sphinx 'restoration' used cement and modern stones, ruining its proportions, and he spent 10 years fixing it.
- The Osiris Shaft beneath Giza was full of groundwater that had to be pumped out, revealing a sarcophagus and four pillars; this is where MrBeast swam.