Rick Strassman — Psychiatrist and DMT researcher who ran the first U.S. government-approved human DMT studies (1990-1995) and wrote 'DMT: The Spirit Molecule.' He later learned biblical Hebrew and now translates the Hebrew Bible, comparing prophetic experiences to the DMT state.
The gist
Strassman and Rogan explore the idea that biblical prophecy and visionary texts (Ezekiel, the burning bush, the Book of Enoch) may describe endogenous-DMT or psychedelic states. They range across the origins of the Hebrew Bible, the Nephilim and giants, Sodom and Gomorrah, the flood, and Strassman's view that early biblical events occurred in an 'alternative dimension' that gradually merged with our reality. The conversation turns to AI as a possible non-human 'Messiah' or new life form, the legalization and risks of psychedelics, and Strassman's own DMT trials. Personal threads include Strassman's near-fatal C. diff illness, recovery, and faith, plus tangents on coyotes, kosher dietary laws, exercise versus antidepressants, and Philip K. Dick.
Big reveals
- Strassman says it took 16 years to write his prophecy book and learn Hebrew along the way.
- Strassman concludes early Hebrew Bible events happened in a separate, DMT-like level of reality that gradually segued into ours.
- Both agree AI may be the 'Messiah' — a new life form humans are giving birth to, not a person.
- Strassman recounts being laid upon body-to-body during an ibogaine session, mirroring the biblical resurrection of Elisha.
- Strassman states he genuinely believes giants (Nephilim) physically existed.
- The DMT study was funded by the war on drugs — they pitched DMT as 'dangerous' rather than 'great' to get money.
- Strassman reveals he nearly died of C. diff and wrote a book ('Joseph Levy Escapes Death') about it.
- Rogan says DMT 'paused' his fascination with UFOs because nothing is as crazy as the DMT state.
Things worth remembering
- The acacia bush releases DMT when burned and grows in the Sinai region, with companion plants containing the beta-carbolines that make ayahuasca orally active.
- The Hebrew words for 'bush' and 'Sinai' share the same three-letter root.
- Per the text, the first thing Noah did after the flood was plant a vineyard and get drunk.
- Strassman submitted his DMT study paperwork in Sept 1988 and gave the first dose in Nov 1990; the high dose was 0.4 mg/kg IV bolus.
- One ibogaine dose reportedly stops roughly 80%+ of users from returning to their addiction.
- A biblical line is read as God capping human lifespan at 120 years — enough time to repent.
- In 'Coyote America,' coyotes spread because persecution triggers females to produce more pups (a 'roll call' effect).
- Rogan cites studies showing exercise can be more effective than SSRIs as an antidepressant.
- Scopolamine ('Devil's Breath'), the active compound in jimson/loco weed, is used in motion-sickness patches but can cause amnesia and brain damage.
- They note humanity may have crashed to a few thousand people ~70,000 years ago after the Toba super-volcano.
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Joseph the Comforter (This Prophecy / prophecy book comparing DMT to Hebrew Bible prophecy)
Rick Strassman
“Oh, so this is a book I wrote 11 years ago. This prophecy. It compares the DMT state to the state of prophecy in the Hebrew Bible.” — Rick Strassman 00:00:01Find it on Amazon
Last and First Men
Olaf Stapledon
“a very cool book I try to mention as often as possible is called The Last and The First and Last Men by Olaf Stapleton.” — Rick Strassman 00:19:17Find it on Amazon
The Kabbalah of Envy
Nilton Bonder
“found a very cool book called The Cabala of Envy by Milton Bonder. and it's a very short book and he starts describing the difference between a grudge and revenge and envy and jealousy” — Rick Strassman 00:06:45Find it on Amazon
Empire of the Summer Moon
S.C. Gwynne (inferred)
“I'm in the middle of the audio book Empire of the Summer Moon for the second time. It's all about the Comanches and the war between the settlers and the Comanches here. It's crazy.” — Joe Rogan 01:23:42Find it on Amazon
Coyote America
Dan Flores
“Have you ever read Dan Flores book Coyote America? It's really good. It's about the origin of the coyote and why the coyote is everywhere now.” — Joe Rogan 02:18:36Find it on Amazon
Joseph Levy Escapes Death
Rick Strassman
“I had C diff some years ago. I even wrote a book about it. Anybody's interested, Joseph Levy escapes death.” — Rick Strassman 02:26:56Find it on Amazon
DMT: The Spirit Molecule
Rick Strassman
“DMT the spirit molecule which is what got me into you in the first place. What a great cover too. That Alex Gray artwork.” — Joe Rogan 03:08:15Find it on Amazon
The Soul of Prophecy (DMT and the Soul of Prophecy)
Rick Strassman
“it came out in 2014. what's the soul prophecy? Is it the visions or is it the message? and then those are the other books that are available.” — Rick Strassman 03:08:15Find it on Amazon
Blade Runner
Ridley Scott (inferred)
“Blade Runner was amazing. The original Bladerunner with Rutger Hauer.” — Joe Rogan 02:42:22Find it on Amazon
Tylenol
Kenvue (inferred)
“I mean if it weren't for Tylenol, I wouldn't be here today. I do find it quite helpful. for injuries. So I find it to be a very helpful drug with no side effects.” — Rick Strassman 00:14:56Find it on Amazon