Ben Askren — Two-time NCAA Division I national champion wrestler, 2008 Olympian, and former Bellator and ONE Championship MMA welterweight champion who went undefeated for years before high-profile losses to Jorge Masvidal and Jake Paul. Known for his unorthodox 'funk' wrestling style, online trash talk, and coaching career.
The gist
Lex Fridman talks with wrestler and MMA fighter Ben Askren about his journey from a chunky, average kid to a dominant collegiate and professional grappler. Askren explains his creative 'funk' wrestling style, the psychology of seeking challenges versus hating to lose, and how he visualized stick-figure wrestlers in his head to invent new moves. The conversation dives deep into training philosophy, the drilling-versus-sparring debate, the science of building a wrestling robot, and what makes Dagestani wrestlers great. Askren also reflects on his losses to Masvidal and Jake Paul, his frustration at never getting a UFC shot at his peak, his cryptocurrency philosophy, and advice for young people.
Big reveals
- Askren claims Dana White refused him any UFC offer in 2013 despite being undefeated and ranked sixth, likely because Askren had publicly called him a liar over drug testing.
- He frames the Masvidal flying-knee loss as a fluke: 'he got me with one move it wasn't like he beat my ass for 15 minutes.'
- After hip surgery, back pain he'd had every morning for years vanished completely, revealing the hip was the hidden cause.
- Askren admits he doesn't belong in the all-time top-10 discussion because 'I didn't prove it I don't deserve it.'
- He describes visualizing gray, three-dimensional stick-figure wrestlers in his head that would invent moves for him, which stopped once he became a coach.
- John Smith told Askren the same imaginary-wrestlers phenomenon happened to him and disappeared once he started coaching.
- Askren says he believes he could beat Khabib Nurmagomedov in a grappling match at his peak.
- He reveals Bilyal Makhachev was the only person the UFC ever signed in the modern era with a 0-0 record, who then never fought.
Things worth remembering
- Askren got a takedown in roughly 53 of 55 rounds across his entire MMA career.
- He quit baseball at age 11 and football as a freshman to focus entirely on wrestling.
- He went from 130 to 100 pounds in sixth grade because he was 'really fat' and weight mattered for wrestling.
- As a redshirt freshman he wrestled 50 matches with 10 losses, then made the NCAA finals the next year.
- Footage of major wrestling events like the Olympics and NCAAs is largely inaccessible because broadcasters treat the rights like any other minor sport.
- Askren argues jiu-jitsu fighters rarely steal wrestling techniques while wrestlers freely steal from jiu-jitsu, citing his 'honey badger' chin-grab learned from the one-arm guillotine.
- He champions Bitcoin for solving real problems like remittance fees, noting Western Union takes 8-12% from migrant workers sending money home.
- On-chain metrics show Bitcoin 'whales' (1000+ coins) kept buying during the downturn while short-term holders (0-3 months) were the main sellers.
- To beat pre-match anxiety, Askren's coach taught him to talk about fishing in the hour before competing to stop overthinking.
Recommended in this episode
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The Talent Code
Daniel Coyle (inferred)
“have you read the book the talent code yeah it's great and that kind of talks about these talent hot spots all around the world” — Lex Fridman 01:19:39Find it on Amazon
book on sports psychology (in progress)
Ben Askren
“i've actually i have writing this book on sports psych but this it's i got well i got someone right for me kind of thing” — guest 00:24:46Find it on Amazon