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Tim Ferriss · 2025-02-11 · 3h 10m

Brandon Sanderson — Building a Fiction Empire & Unbreakable Habits

Brandon Sanderson breaks down how he built a fantasy publishing empire through writing habits, magic systems, and a record-shattering $41M Kickstarter.

Brandon Sanderson — Building a Fiction Empire & Unbreakable Habits
The guest

Brandon Sanderson — Bestselling epic fantasy author (Mistborn, The Stormlight Archive) who finished Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series and built Dragonsteel, a direct-to-consumer publishing company. Holds the record for the largest Kickstarter ever.

The gist

Brandon Sanderson tells Tim Ferriss the origin story of becoming a writer, from a reluctant reader who cheated on a book report to discovering fantasy through a single dragon novel that changed his trajectory. He details his disciplined writing habits (two four-hour blocks, 2,000-2,500 new words a day), his teaching framework of narrative as 'promise, progress, payoff,' and his philosophy of treating the writer rather than the book as the true work of art. He explains his hard magic systems and his three (plus a zeroth) laws of magic, illustrated through Mistborn, Lord of the Rings, and Star Wars. The conversation digs into the business of publishing: writing 13 novels before selling one, near-failure of Mistborn, Amazon's market control, why he built Dragonsteel for direct sales, and the four-secret-books Kickstarter that raised roughly $41-45 million. He closes on the economics of audiobooks, ebooks, and advances, and the shift of power from New York publishers to creators and platforms.

Big reveals

  • Sanderson signs 50,000 to 100,000 book plates per year, and started his podcast specifically so he could sign pages while talking.
  • He wrote five novels he never even submitted to publishers, treating them as 'weight training' for his mind, and wrote 13 novels total before selling number six.
  • His first book sold for a grand total of $10,000 spread across three years; his schoolteacher wife supported them on roughly $22,000 a year while he broke in.
  • After Amazon shut off the ability to buy his publisher's books during a contract dispute, he realized one company controlled his career and resolved to 'Amazon-proof' himself with direct-to-consumer sales.
  • His leatherbound editions, which the publisher could only sell 250 copies of, sold 50,000 once he took them direct-to-consumer.
  • He secretly wrote four extra novels during COVID and launched a fake 'apology/retirement' video to tease a Kickstarter, expecting $7-10 million.
  • That Kickstarter for four secret books raised about $41 million (around $45 million with add-ons), more than doubling the previous record of $21 million and remaining the largest Kickstarter ever.
  • After Robert Jordan died in 2007, his widow/editor Harriet chose Sanderson to finish The Wheel of Time, calling him out of the blue when he had only three books published.
  • Mistborn's mass-market paperback initially tanked; relabeling it a new $4.99 'edition' with a new cover rescued the series from the publishing 'death spiral.'

Things worth remembering

  • Sanderson aims for 2,000-2,500 new words a day; about a third of his time goes to revision, so a Stormlight Archive book (around 400,000 words) takes roughly 18 months.
  • He works two four-hour blocks instead of one eight-hour block because eight hours brain-drains him; he treats time at the gym as thinking/writing time.
  • Early in his marriage he deliberately demarcated 6:30 to 10:30 PM as non-writing 'family time' after his wife said he hadn't looked at her once during a dinner.
  • He recommends 'Save the Cat' (and 'Save the Cat Goes to the Movies') for structure and Stephen King's 'On Writing' for the writer's life.
  • 'Tress of the Emerald Sea' became his third best-selling book of all time through a publisher, after only Mistborn and Stormlight first volumes, despite being a Kickstarter book.
  • On a $15 audiobook credit, after all the splits, an author like him averages about $4; ebooks priced above $9.99 drop the royalty from 70% to 20%.
  • He released Warbreaker free under Creative Commons as an experiment and found it didn't hurt sales at all.
  • Sanderson's First Law: an author's ability to solve conflict with magic is proportional to how well the reader understands that magic.
  • His Second Law: weaknesses, limits, and costs are more interesting than powers (e.g., Superman is defined by what he can't do).
  • His Zeroth Law: 'always err on the side of what's awesome' — break your own rules if something is too cool to leave out.

Recommended in this episode

Books, products and media the guest or host genuinely endorsed here — with the buy link.

Affiliate link — we may earn a commission at no extra cost to you.

RecommendedBook

Dragonsbane

Barbara Hambly

“I arrived on this book called Dragon Spain by Barbara Hamley and it really was the cover cover illustrator is Michael whan” — Brandon Sanderson 00:34:21
Find it on Amazon
RecommendedBook

Save the Cat Goes to the Movies

Blake Snyder (inferred)

“a book called save the cat goes to the movies yeah that examines different genres within screenwriting so that's not the original save the cat” — Tim Ferriss 00:49:03
Find it on Amazon
RecommendedBook

Save the Cat

Blake Snyder

“so I do recommend save the cat but save the cat goes in the movies I haven't read that” — Brandon Sanderson 00:49:35
Find it on Amazon
RecommendedBook

On Writing

Stephen King

“if you want the opposite of save the cat on writing by Stephen King is a leaping off point in save the cat's about structure and onw writings about the life of a writer” — Brandon Sanderson 00:49:35
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Guest’s ownBook

Alcatraz Versus the Evil Librarians

Brandon Sanderson

“I have a middle- grade series called alcatra EV Librarians which are pure gardened” — Brandon Sanderson 00:50:05
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Guest’s ownBook

Mistborn

Brandon Sanderson

“so I'll build it from of my books mistborn right so mistborn had a series of ideas the first idea came I was reading Harry Potter” — Brandon Sanderson 00:51:37
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Sneakers

“I have a deep and Abiding Love Of The Heist genre you know sneakers is one of my favorite films of all time oldie but goody” — Brandon Sanderson 00:53:09
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Guest’s ownBook

The Way of Kings

Brandon Sanderson

“the way of Kings is 400,000 words and we kind of cram stuff in there and we get to a thousand pages on that” — Brandon Sanderson 00:29:07
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Guest’s ownBook

The Stormlight Archive

Brandon Sanderson

“he's the illustrator who did the way of kings and The Stormlight Archive for me I eventually got him” — Brandon Sanderson 00:34:21
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RecommendedBook

The Name of the Wind

Patrick Rothfuss

“Pat rfus published his first book and it's brilliant Name of the Wind Name of the Wind yeah that is spectacular book first novel” — Brandon Sanderson 01:11:21
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Elantris

Brandon Sanderson

“that's the one I eventually ended up selling those five I'd written” — Brandon Sanderson 01:11:21
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RecommendedBook

The Blade Itself

Joe Abercrombie

“you you kind of look at Joe abomi as kind of the modern version of that so the blade itself the blade itself fantastic oh so fun” — Brandon Sanderson 01:13:27
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Guest’s ownBook

The Way of Kings Prime

Brandon Sanderson

“I sold number six after I'd finished number 13 which was way of Kings Prime” — Brandon Sanderson 01:18:06
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Guest’s ownBook

Warbreaker

Brandon Sanderson

“War breaker that you mentioned was one of these just a standalone book that I wrote between the misbourne trilogy The Wheel of Time and Stormlight” — Brandon Sanderson 01:47:23
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RecommendedBook

The Lions of Al-Rassan

Guy Gavriel Kay

“guy Gabriel K is very good at them the Lions of arasan or taana are to highly recommended their 90s fantasy” — Brandon Sanderson 01:47:53
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RecommendedBook

Tigana

Guy Gavriel Kay

“the Lions of arasan or taana are to highly recommended their 90s fantasy they're a little slower than modern fantasy” — Brandon Sanderson 01:47:53
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RecommendedMedia

The Princess Bride

William Goldman (inferred)

“we showed them The Princess Bride one of my favorite movies and favorite books amazing amazing amazing everything” — Brandon Sanderson 01:48:56
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Guest’s ownBook

Tress of the Emerald Sea

Brandon Sanderson

“it became the story truss of the emerald sea that I wrote without any plans to publish it without any contracts without any expectations” — Brandon Sanderson 01:51:31
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RecommendedBook

Ender's Game

Orson Scott Card (inferred)

“she's the editor of the book Enders Game great book really top-notch editor and then she discovered Wheel of Time” — Brandon Sanderson 02:28:24
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Guest’s ownBook

Skyward

Brandon Sanderson

“Skyward which is my actual young adult series is shelf as adult in the UK” — Brandon Sanderson 03:02:09
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RecommendedBook

The Lies of Locke Lamora

Scott Lynch

“Li luck MOA came out which is another one Scott Lynch yeah Scott Lynch fantastic that is a really fun really fun series” — Brandon Sanderson 02:44:32
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